Peter James in conversation with Colin Nicol

Colin Nicol was an early signing to Radio Atlanta and, after a broadcasting career which also included Radios Caroline, England and Luxembourg, the BBC and BFBS, he returned to his native Australia. He remained fascinated by the history of offshore radio and kindly provided many items of memorabilia to The Pirate Radio Hall of Fame.
 
Back in the eighties, he recorded chats with a number of people who had played important roles in the birth of British offshore broadcasting. His interview with Allan Crawford is here, with Richard Harris here, engineer Patrick Starling here and there is also his conversation with Caroline music man Ken Evans. Other interviews have appeared in Offshore Echo's magazine. His conversation with Caroline South's on-shore contact Bill Scadden can be found on the Offshore Radio Nostalgia website.
 
This interview is with Peter James, a broadcaster from New Zealand who started his UK career on Caroline South but is probably best remembered for his long stint with Radio 390. Although this interview touches on Radio 390, it mainly concentrates on Peter's time with Caroline.
 
The conversation took place in 1984. At the time Peter was working for London's Capital Radio. The transcript has been edited slightly to improve readability. It is copyright Colin Nicol and we are grateful to him for sharing it with us.

Peter James on Radio Caroline South one afternoon in February 1965. This is an edited version of a recording available from www.azanorak.com. Our thanks to Ray Robinson (duration 2 minutes 39 seconds)

Colin Nicol: Peter, let's begin at the beginning, because it's the best place to begin. Where did you first hear the words pirate radio?
 
Peter James: Well, I can't remember, actually. I think it may well have been in New Zealand.
 
CN: What year?
 
PJ: 1964. I know that because I was intensely interested in travelling abroad in 1964. Sitting on the air in a small town in New Zealand, I sort of gleaned every bit of information I could about Europe and specifically radio, I suppose.
 
CN: Was that an impetus to come over?
 
PJ: No, no, no, no, no, not at all. The Olympic Games were my impetus to move. It suddenly occurred to me they were happening in Tokyo in 1964 and I discovered how much it cost to go to Tokyo and then on to London, so I decided I'd go straight to London and miss the Olympic Games. And I was in Greece. I remember this very clearly. I got off the boat in Piraeus...
 
CN: Talking about place names, you were in Auckland when you started out?
 
PJ: No, I was... originally from... Wellington, I suppose. I mean, I was educated in Auckland, but I lived in Wellington. Then was sent to a place called Hawke's Bay, working for two of the NZBC^[1] stations there. One was non-commercial and one was commercial, and you had to be interchangeable. So you became a factual BBC-type person in the afternoon if you were doing a non-commercial shift and then you were very, very commercial and hard sell, if you could be, in the morning.
 
CN: So we get you to England?
 
PJ: Well, no, you got me to Greece, actually, to Piraeus. And I got off the boat and sort of hired a motorbike and charged into Athens and looked around and went over the Acropolis like a sort of an insect. And somewhere, I think probably at the bottom of the Acropolis, at one of those tourist stands, I saw a Sunday paper. Now, whether it was a Sunday or a Monday or a Tuesday or Wednesday, I can't remember what day it was but I bought it. I think it may have been the Sunday Mirror, but I can't remember. And I didn't know one paper from another in those days anyway, but there was a double-page spread about Radio Caroline. And I read it, and I thought, why not drop them a line? So after we set sail from Greece, going towards, I think, Marseille, I composed a letter and posted it in Marseille to Radio Caroline, London, and told them where I was going to be and did they have any jobs going. And much to my surprise, about five days after I landed, the letter came to the address I was staying at, saying would you come up and take an audition? Can you imagine? You actually went in and did auditions for a pirate radio station! And I did. And I remember Caroline was in Chesterfield Gardens but its phone number was Hyde Park something or other and in my confusion and total ignorance of London, asked to be taken to 6 Hyde Park Gardens, or 6 Hyde Park, whatever it was. And, of course, that was (Winston) Churchill's address. And he was terribly ill. That was literally about a week or two before he died^[2].
 
CN: What was the scene like there?
 
PJ: Unbelievable. Press (milling around) and, you know.... Never forgotten it.
 
CN: Did you make it to the audition on time?
 
PJ: Well, no, I was late but I explained what I'd done and they took pity on me (laughs) and I did the audition, and within the week I was sort of floating on the North Sea. Anyway, the extraordinary thing was that I was on board when Churchill's state funeral took place. And even more sort of peculiar was that I was staying in Essex and the day I went up for my audition to Caroline, or the day before I went up, I got on the train in Manningtree. We all remember Manningtree because we used to change there to catch the little shuttle to... I can't think....
 
CN: Harwich.
 
PJ: Harwich. And that day I caught the 9.30 or whatever from Manningtree to London and I saw a figure that I recognised from the press, Randolph Churchill, running for the train. I was sitting in my compartment and I saw him running along. I always remember he had no socks on. He was obviously catching the train up to London to be by his father. I've never forgotten it. And another thing I remember from those days was actually buying The Times at, I think, Harwich. Along with Dermot Hoy, we both bought a copy of the Times - Dermot was Bryan Vaughan of course in Caroline's terms - because the Times changed its format^[3]. It was still in the old edition in those days and they'd put a front page on it, Churchill was dead. And I've still got that paper somewhere. I don't know where, but it's in the archives somewhere. Probably in New Zealand, I think. I probably sent it home.
 
I can't think of who was on board with me. (Keith) Skues certainly, Bryan Vaughan ...

Left to right: Bryan Vaughan, Errol Bruce, Peter James, Ken Evans, Keith Skues and visitor James Alexander Gordon, then working in the music industry but later to become a famous broadcaster himself. Thanks to Colin Nichol for the photo.

CN: Jon Sydney?
 
PJ: No, hadn't arrived.
 
CN: Paul Noble?
 
PJ: No.
 
CN: Errol Bruce?
 
PJ: Errol Bruce and Don... Canadian. Don... Who ended up on the Isle of Man radio station? There's no-one else I can remember. Don...
 
CN: Don Allen?
 
PJ: Don Allen.
 
CN: And who else can you remember from that time?
 
PJ: Well, on the opposite shift, of course, were the stars, like Blackburn and...
 
CN: Tony Blackburn.
 
PJ: Simon Dee, Carl... Conway? Can't remember. But I did a shift from eleven to twelve in the morning and from two to four in the afternoon. The morning programme was called ‘Top Deck’ and the afternoon programme was called ‘Soundtrack’.
 
CN: Which Simon Dee later made his own programme, didn't he?
 
PJ: Well, he was on the opposing shift. I mean, it was probably his programme that I was just filling in. But I remember being incredibly ill all the time and having enormous difficulty finding records to play...
 
CN: Suitability?
 
PJ: Yes ... because the library was so limited in albums.
 
CN: What sort of incidents come to mind? Can you remember anything?
 
PJ: I remember a terrifying jump from the boat to the tender one particular changeover day. I don't remember which day. Was it a Monday we changed?
 
CN: Whenever the tender could get alongside. Sometimes it was late.
 
PJ: Well, I think it used to be a Monday but, you know, I remember being on (the ship) and desperate to get off. I mean, we were only on for a week, but I was having a sort of cabin fever.
 
CN: It was week on, week off at that stage, was it?
 
PJ: Yes, week on, week off.
 
CN: What sort of period? Mid-64?
 
PJ: No, this was January '65. It was after Churchill died.
 
CN: Oh, yes, later.
 
PJ: And I remember Skues and I were due off and come what may we were going to get off and we were anxiously scanning the horizon to see if the blasted tender was actually going to appear, and it did, and we thanked God the thing was running. We were both fairly desperate to get off for whatever reason and I remember this absolutely stormy sea and both vessels going up and down, and it was sort of you waited until yours went up and then you jumped and hoped to God that you landed and otherwise you would have been sort of crushed or drowned or something equally awful. And we did get off and I said, well, they can't get us back on. I don't care what happens. Little did I know what I was going to go through because we then went alongside Radio London, which had not been there all that long - three months? - and Everett, he doesn't remember this, Kenny Everett, because I've approached him on it, but he doesn't remember it. Don't blame him. But Everett came off and I think Duncan Johnson was the other jock - I may be wrong on that and it may be my memory playing tricks - but only two got off from London, because by then it was really terribly rough. I mean, we thought we'd had a hard time. And it took us eight hours to get back to...
 
CN: Their ship was higher off the water than Caroline.
 
PJ: Yes. It took us eight hours from leaving Caroline's Mi Amigo to getting into Harwich. And I thought I was going to die. Because I remember Skues and I, we got up one end of the cabin in the Offshore 1, and with our arms out, trying to balance ourselves against the ... whatever they call those things ...
 
CN: Bulkheads.
 
PJ: Yes ... and desperately worried we were going to be ill. I wasn't ill. Everett was dreadfully ill. I remember that. He was throwing up all over the place. We'd got off at ten in the morning and we got the last train back into Liverpool Street and I remember getting home to my flat at about one in the morning, totally and utterly shattered. And ... I wondered whether it was worth it actually. I think that was really the most horrifying experience. I mean, I remember being seasick on board and just climbing up that companionway ... I feel sick now when I think about it actually! Do you remember where the cabins were? I mean, you had to get up that damn steep ladder up into the saloon and then through the saloon into the studio.
 
I also remember we used to sort of clutch on to television in the evenings. We used to close down at eight in those days, or seven. I don't remember. Then we used to watch television.
 
CN: Our contact with the world.
 
PJ: Yes. We used to always enjoy The Eamonn Andrews Show^[4] on a Sunday night. It was billed as live from London. Skues always used to do the imitation voice of... You'd have to turn the sound down and let him do the “Live from London”! (laughs)
 
Another thing I remember is the food was pretty awful. It was Dutch, wasn't it? Dutch cook. And I didn't drink beer. We were allowed cans of Heineken, but I never drank it because I couldn't stand it. And so I actually never drank anything, much, because we were never allowed spirits or anything.
 
CN: I don't recall that we were. It was all beer.
 
PJ: It's extraordinary. I find it terribly hard to remember. It all seems like 50 years ago. It's not that long.
 
CN: Well, it's getting on for 20, isn't it? It's 20 years on March 28th since Caroline started ...
 
PJ: Yes, but it was '65 for me so that's 19 years now.
 
CN: What sort of stories do you... Do you remember incidents about the food? About sitting in that upstairs room with the television? Were there stories about people going bonkers and running around with knives?
 
PJ: No, nothing ever happened. I remember people being a bit crotchety.
 
CN: The broadcast staff or the crew?
 
PJ: The broadcast staff. I mean, Skues and I got on OK, so we were all right, but I remember ... I think Errol Bruce was probably a fairly difficult character in recollection. I mean, I may be doing him a total injustice. He was fun but he was also a short-fused person. I don't remember the crew ever going mad. Not when I was there. I remember the captain used to be a fairly remote person. He was very gruff.
 
CN: Do you remember his name?
 
PJ: No, I don't. I remember what he looked like.
 
CN: Big man?
 
PJ: Blonde hair, grizzled sort of features. A toughie.
 
CN: Tall? Fat?
 
PJ: Tall. Not fat. Tall, but well built. And had very little to do with us. I mean, we were sort of supernumerary, as far as he was concerned, I suppose. I remember a visit from... It sounded quite important. Somebody came out to visit us.
 
CN: Tell me ...
 
PJ: I remember the birthday in March. Was it March?^[5]
 
CN: Would have been.
 
PJ: Yes. And I was on the air that day. It was a Sunday. I remember being on the air and people came out to visit us, because the weather wasn't bad. And I remember being fairly upset that I couldn't get on deck in the afternoon because I was on the air and people were coming alongside and handing over things. I remember they came out and brought us cakes, and I think the odd bottle of booze too, I think and it was a source of great celebration for everybody. I can't remember our programming that day at all. It's awful, my brain has gone as far as that sort of thing is concerned.
 
CN: It's important to remember the birthday.
 
PJ: I do remember the birthday ... being on board, and I think we actually probably got pretty smashed that night.
 
CN: Did (station boss) Ronan (O'Rahilly) come aboard?
 
PJ: No, actually it was just us. He never came out the whole time I was there. I think Ken Evans may have come out but whether it was a Sunday or the Saturday .... He may have come out on the Saturday morning. I've got a feeling the day before he came out with a big birthday cake, and thank God, new records and scripts and things.
 
I've got a feeling that somebody important visited the ship when I was there, and I can't remember who it was... No, I know who it was. It was a reporter on the Daily Sketch. Not very important, I suppose, but important in terms of press coverage. His name I cannot remember, who did this big article - the Sketch, of course, went out of business probably the next year^[6] - but did the article and they were very rude about me. I smoked with a cigarette holder in those days (laughs) which he thought was a bit sort of fey, which it probably was! I'm just trying to remember other incidents, you know. Whenever anybody new came out, everyone became incredibly neurotic, I seem to remember, in case their job was over. And that did happen, did it not?
 
CN: Frequently.
 
PJ: Yes.
 
CN: Were you there when there was the list on the walls? The people who'd gone?
 
PJ: No, that was done after my time. I knew about it, because I starred on it (laughs). I think my time was comparatively short there. When Simon Dee moved into a position of power, I disappeared.
 
CN: Would you do it again?
 
PJ: No. But I probably would if I was younger. I'm very glad I did it because it was the most exciting thing, of course, to have been in ... I always remember talking to somebody who is now very well established in independent local radio in this country who shall be nameless but he said to me “it is the one thing I regret, that I was never on pirate radio”. Because it's history. Pirate radio, to me, now is my history. It's a nuisance, as far as we are concerned^[7].
 
CN: Why is that?
 
PJ: Well, I mean, they broadcast with none of the restraints that we do. They don't have to pay the royalty payments we do. I mean, they have a very easy livelihood. And, of course, it's very easy to play records all day long. I rather resent pirates now and that's not because I'm part of the establishment. And somehow, I mean, even though Caroline is now on the air - again - it's not the same. It's far too slick by comparison with what we went through. Oh, I can remember being so ill, and having to sit there in front of that microphone and play records the way I like to do now. And I'm sure others would agree with me. Those were the pioneering days, and I'm very pleased to have been part of it. I was thrilled, absolutely thrilled to have been a part of pirate radio. And, you know, thrilled, too, that I managed to make it through into the BBC and eventually into ILR. It really was something about setting off from Liverpool Street on a Monday morning at 10 o'clock, catching that 10 o'clock train from Liverpool Street. There was a certain sense of adventure that people on Liverpool Street station standing alongside us, waiting to get on the train, had no idea that we worked for pirate radio and were totally illegal and all that sort of thing. And we'd get off and make our way to that tender, and on we'd go and sail off into the blue yonder, quite often a very stormy grey yonder, but it was fun. I was very pleased when I sort of got onto a station that actually didn't move (laughs) - like Radio 390. It had hard getting up to it, but once you were there, at least it didn't move^[8].
 
CN: That was after Caroline.
 
PJ: Oh yes, a long time. Well, not that many months, September '65 I think.
 
CN: Just touching briefly on 390. Was there supposed at one stage to be a connection between Caroline and 390?
 
PJ: Wasn't it City and Caroline?
 
CN: Well, I'm not sure. What do you remember?

Evening News, 22nd June 1966. Radio 390 staff with Peter on the left. The picture appeared in the newspaper to illustrate a report on the Radio City raid but the photographer had visited the wrong fort.

PJ: I seem to remember two versions of this. Which one is correct, I don't know. But I remember us on 390 getting a warning that we should watch anything that looked as though it was coming towards us, that we didn't recognise. In other words, prepare for invasion. And we couldn't work out why. And there'd been rumours flying around, obviously, in town and they thought we were going to be taken over. But actually, it was Radio City, Reg Calvert's organisation that was going to be taken over by Caroline. And they did, in fact, mount an invasion exercise. And I still remember making the front page of the Evening News, standing on top of one of the forts on 390, along with a group of other people waving in front of me, happily, with a helicopter taking pictures of us. And they thought they were photographing Radio City, and it was 390 (laughs) and somewhere I've got that page in the archives, I don't know where. Reg Calvert was shot, in fact, at the very same time, by ...
 
CN: Oliver Smedley.
 
PJ: That's right. He got off, didn't he?
 
CN: Yes. Do you remember any connection between 390 and Caroline at all?
 
PJ: No I don't.
 
CN: Because I seem to recall that a transmitter that shipped out to 390 at one stage hoisted onto the fort, fell into the sea before it got there. I have a photograph of it falling into the sea. Now, that may have been after your time.
 
PJ: Well, I was with 390 from September '65 until it closed. I've got a feeling you're thinking of City ...^[9]
 
CN: I'm wondering.
 
PJ: ... because I don't remember anything remotely resembling it. We had the most powerful transmitter of all the pirate stations anyway^[10].
 
CN: You could hear it in Manchester, couldn't you?
 
PJ: All over the place. Very powerful transmitter. I climbed to the top of it (the aerial mast) once to fix a light. Imagine 200 feet up in the air and you're 90 feet up above the ocean anyway. I climbed to the top of that one summer evening after we'd gone off the air. Went off the air early, made an announcement and went off the air early so we could do it in daylight. I think we went off the air about 8 o'clock. It was a summer night. I sort of got halfway up and realised I was terrified but then, of course, it was too late to come back. What would I say when I got back anyway? And as I was the fort captain, if you can believe that term, I had to carry on. (laughs) I think coming down was more terrifying than going up, actually, because I was bloody tired by the time I got down again. But we were very responsible. We didn't want anybody flying into the mast. Which was highly unlikely in the estuary, but, you know, we couldn't allow it. Extraordinary place, you know. Anyway, I mustn't talk about 390. You want to hear about Caroline.
 
CN: That's correct.
 
PJ: I remember Ronan O'Rahilly's office at Caroline House.
 
CN: Do you remember the dramas about staff changes?
 
PJ: Oh, God, yes, I do. I was there in the transition from Chris Moore to Simon Dee.^[11]
 
CN: Chris Moore was thrown out on his ear, wasn't he?
 
PJ: I believe so, from memory. He was an American. I don't know what happened to him.
 
CN: What were your feelings about the programme policy?
 
PJ: Well, I was a great fan of Ken Evans' programme policy.
 
CN: Ken was a professional.
 
PJ: Yeah. And I am very thankful for Ken, because I think he probably was the major influence in me ever getting a job on Caroline in the first place because I was a bloody awful disc-jockey! Bloody awful. I mean, I was dreadful. I had quite a strong New Zealand accent back then.
 
I'm just trying to think. I remember huge dramas between Allan Crawford and Ronan O'Rahilly, but was never privy to them, so I don't know the details but I do know that they made people incredibly neurotic and ... what's the word?
 
CN: Unstable?
 
PJ: Unstable, yes, but ... There's another word. Insecure. Lack of security, I think, was probably one of the strongest memories I have about the early days of Radio Caroline and it became worse, of course, I understand, under the regimes that followed. I don't remember anybody being fired during the time I was there.
 
CN: Perhaps there was a lull.
 
PJ: Well, I think I started it off, you know, when then they got rid of me. I think they went through them like a dose of salts, or whatever the expression is. One after another. Whatever happened to Jon Sydney, I remember him now. He was a tall, dark Australian chap, wasn't he?
 
CN: He went to Blackpool with a (stage) show and then back to, I think, Australia.
 
PJ: Not many of them survived, those people. When I look around the industry today, I mean, it's just Skues and me from that original bunch. Oh and Tony Blackburn of course.
 
CN: We'll stretch it a bit further. Roger Day, Johnnie Walker ...
 
PJ: No, he wasn't there in my day.
 
CN: Yes, but they still went through that.
 
PJ: Oh, yes. I was talking specifically about the time I was there.
 
CN: Your era. Yes, not many from your era.
 
PJ: Which was January 65 to about ... (uncertain) May?
 
CN: Could well be. And then, yes, certainly the latter part of '65 and into '66 it became very unstable.
 
PJ: I wasn't there. I was with 390 then. It must have been about May because Bob Walton came back. He was the one I replaced. He went out to New Zealand. I think he went back on the air, did he not?

Peter cueing up a record in the Caroline South studio. Photo by Alec Fry. More of his pictures here.

CN: Can't remember. He may have done.
 
PJ: He worked for us at 390 in the end, as Lee Gilbert.
 
CN: Lee Gilbert?
 
PJ: That was his name.
 
CN: Oh, really? Still around, you know.
 
PJ: Oh, yes. But... I think it is Skues, Blackburn and I still going from that period. From Caroline, certainly. Well, Everett, of course, was on London.
 
CN: What about customs? Did you have any problems?
 
PJ: No stories about that at all. Never stopped, ever. In fact, quite often, they didn't bother to check us when we came through.
 
CN: Did you stay overnight in the hotel at the Gables, or one of those places?
 
PJ: No, never stayed there.
 
CN: Caroline House itself, what was your impression of Caroline House?
 
PJ: Very grand. You must remember I was a small-town New Zealander. I'd never seen anything like it.
 
CN: It's derelict^[12].
 
PJ: Yes, I know. Next to the 21 Club, which is still going, just, I understand. But a beautiful Georgian house, was it? Was it Georgian, or Regency?
 
CN: Hmm, that's a point.
 
PJ: It was a beautiful building. You can still see (the words) Caroline House under the white paint, if you look closely.
 
CN: Oh, it's still there, very clearly. The name's still there as it was. It's just got very grubby. Nothing's been done with it since it was vacated. It hasn't been used.
 
PJ: I wonder who owns it.
 
CN: That's what we've not going to be able to find out.
 
PJ: Probably Ronan.
 
CN: No, I don't think so.
 
PJ: I remember his office being very long, and he had a bust of Kennedy. I remember that. I don't know why I was in there. Perhaps I was introduced to him.
 
CN: What was your impression of him?
 
PJ: A rather remote figure. A rather remote figure.
 
CN: He was supposed to be only very young at that time.
 
PJ: Yes, he used to dye his hair grey, did he not? To make him look older.
 
CN: Is that so?
 
PJ: Well, that's the story I heard. And we had Simon Dee trying to dye his hair to make himself look younger! (laughs) I had my comeuppance with Simon Dee. Or he had his comeuppance with me. Extraordinary. He was the one responsible for my leaving Caroline but then insisted on writing me the most glowing reference. I suppose that was to assuage his guilt. I've still got it somewhere. And then he became an enormous star on television and radio. Do you remember? In 1967 I was appointed to be a producer at the BBC and one of the first people I had to produce was Simon Dee! And he had to do what I said because I was the producer and in those days producers were very powerful. All programmes were completely and utterly produced and scripted, even on Radio 1. I feel very sorry for him.
 
CN: Yes, he's disappeared.
 
PJ: I remember the first time I went out (to Caroline), I had no idea what I was supposed to actually take in the way of clothing or... and I remember being rather formally dressed. I think I probably wore a tie and was confronted by this be-jeaned and be-sweatered brigade and soon learned to become part of it. I shall never forget the first day of going onto that boat and not knowing quite what to do, where to go and I remember Dermot, Bryan Vaughan, being terribly helpful and showing me around. This is where you'll be working, this is what you're doing. And these are the records, and somehow you play them. I mean, I had never in those days worked a cart machine, because we didn't have them in New Zealand when I left. They soon did have them after that. And I never got a bloody thing right. I mean, Bulova Watch Time. I was forever missing it by not having the blasted key over on ‘programme’ mode. I was always on ‘audition’! (laughs) I used to make terrible mistakes^[13]. Bulova Watch Time, it's one minute past eleven!
 
Do you know who I heard from the other day? It was Keith Martin.
 
CN: Oh, we've been in close contact.
 
PJ: I saw him last year for the first time in ages. He's probably told you more stories than I can. I don't know whether he was on board or not when I was there. We always talked about him. He was called Tangerine. I don't know why. Did he used to wear a tangerine sweatshirt all the time?
 
CN: Could be.
 
PJ: Skues would know the answer to that. He was always good at nick-naming people.

NOTES

Interview © Colin Nicol.